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Al C
Kitchen floor dilemma

I'm looking for some advice on a new kitchen floor. We just re-did the cabinets and countertops. We left the existing floor in place because it is a linoleum floor installed around 1960 and we have been told that either the flooring or the adhesive contain asbestos, (and possibly both contain asbestos). We have also been told we should not install any type of wood flooring over the linoleum as this would create a problem with moisture building up between the newly installed wood flooring and the linoleum especially here on the coast, (we live on Cape Ann). Tile may be an option as we've been told by the local tile shop that with today's adhesives we could go right over the old linoleum floor. I was under the impression that some type of tile backer, (cement board or hardy back board) was necessary as a subfloor for any tile. We'd like to avoid laminates and LVT's if possible so are looking for any feedback.

Jeanne
Re: Kitchen floor dilemma

If you are thinking of tile, the best place to go for information is the John Bridge Tile Forum. Tell them we sent you:)

HoustonRemodeler
Re: Kitchen floor dilemma

As Lily mentioned the John Bridge forum is where you need to be.

The first thing they will as for is the joist size, span, spacing and species to determine if your floor can handle ceramic tile or not.

Grab a camera and a tape measure.

dj1
Re: Kitchen floor dilemma

I don't believe that you mentioned whether your floor is on a slab or joists.

Al C
Re: Kitchen floor dilemma
dj1 wrote:

I don't believe that you mentioned whether your floor is on a slab or joists.

Thanks all for the replies. House is circa 1920. Floor is on joist; 2 x 8 douglas fir spaced at 17" on center with 3/4" x 11" douglas fir boards for decking. On top of that is a 3/4" x 2 1/4" red oak hardwood floor then the linoleum installed over the hardwood. The floor is level and there are no noticeable sags or soft spots.

dj1
Re: Kitchen floor dilemma

All right, now measure the joists length, and with all your measurements in hand, go to johnbridge forum, find their DEFLECTION FORMULA, plug in your data and the result will tell you if it's a go or a no go.

what worries me is the 2x8 joists, unless they are very short.

Al C
Re: Kitchen floor dilemma
dj1 wrote:

All right, now measure the joists length, and with all your measurements in hand, go to johnbridge forum, find their DEFLECTION FORMULA, plug in your data and the result will tell you if it's a go or a no go.

what worries me is the 2x8 joists, unless they are very short.

Thanks again for the info. Went to the John Bridge forum with all the relevant data and it's a thumbs down on installing tile or stone on the floor so I'm back to square one. Now the question becomes can a pre-finished wood floor, (like a Bellawood solid maple) be installed over the linoleum?

As I indicated in my original post, I've been told this is not advisable because of possible moisture problems which can occur between the linoleum and the newly installed wood floor, (I live on the coast in MA). This advice came from a very reputable flooring retailer that deals exclusively in wood flooring.

dj1
Re: Kitchen floor dilemma

Just as I thought, it was the 2x8 joists and 17" oc.

Is there a way you can beef up the joists from below?

Invite a couple of framers to get their opinions after looking at the floor.

Jeanne
Re: Kitchen floor dilemma

If you can access the joist, you can make them stronger and then go with tile. Yes – cement board or Hardi backer, but there is also Ditra, which I believe can go right over linoleum and is much thinner and easier to work with. I’ve never used it so once again I’m sending you over to John Bridge to get the particulars about beefing up the joist and the necessary subfloor needed. They are very helpful there.

I do not have any idea what the cost would be, but if you had the linoleum removed by an asbestos removal company, you might be able to refinish the hardwood underneath. I have no idea what kind of shape the hardwood might be in. I have heard of people doing that when reading through the TOH home renovations.

Engineered hardwood can be put down with adhesive, so that might work too. If the linoleum in in poor shape you may need to put some sort of substrate, another subfloor or luan (depending on what your flooring choice is) over it.

I don’t know about the problem with the linoleum under hardwood. Linoleum doesn’t breath – it is non-porous, so it may keep any moisture trapped under the wood causing problems. That is my guess. Also, when hardwood is installed, it is nailed to the subfloor. After mine was put in, there were splinters of subfloor on the basement floor underneath. I suppose, the nails would shoot out bits of linoleum, which would free up the asbestos, so maybe not a good idea.

I also prefer hardwood to laminate, but there are some really nice laminates out there and they hold up better in a kitchen. I have hardwood in my kitchen and I love it, but it definitely has its distressed areas. DJ does not believe in hardwood in the kitchen, but he lives in southern California and doesn’t wake up to freezing tile on a cold winter morning:)

Al C
Re: Kitchen floor dilemma
Lily wrote:

If you can access the joist, you can make them stronger and then go with tile. Yes – cement board or Hardi backer, but there is also Ditra, which I believe can go right over linoleum and is much thinner and easier to work with. I’ve never used it so once again I’m sending you over to John Bridge to get the particulars about beefing up the joist and the necessary subfloor needed. They are very helpful there.

I do not have any idea what the cost would be, but if you had the linoleum removed by an asbestos removal company, you might be able to refinish the hardwood underneath. I have no idea what kind of shape the hardwood might be in. I have heard of people doing that when reading through the TOH home renovations.

Engineered hardwood can be put down with adhesive, so that might work too. If the linoleum in in poor shape you may need to put some sort of substrate, another subfloor or luan (depending on what your flooring choice is) over it.

I don’t know about the problem with the linoleum under hardwood. Linoleum doesn’t breath – it is non-porous, so it may keep any moisture trapped under the wood causing problems. That is my guess. Also, when hardwood is installed, it is nailed to the subfloor. After mine was put in, there were splinters of subfloor on the basement floor underneath. I suppose, the nails would shoot out bits of linoleum, which would free up the asbestos, so maybe not a good idea.

I also prefer hardwood to laminate, but there are some really nice laminates out there and they hold up better in a kitchen. I have hardwood in my kitchen and I love it, but it definitely has its distressed areas. DJ does not believe in hardwood in the kitchen, but he lives in southern California and doesn’t wake up to freezing tile on a cold winter morning:)

Thanks again to all the responded. Got some great information. Beefing up the existing floor is certainly an option but I don't believe it's worth it as I'm not married to the idea of tile only. I could laminate 2 x 12's to the existing joists to achieve the proper load rating but this brings up issues with existing plumbing, gas,electrical and heating duct lines. Our original plan was to go with a laminate floor or a luxury vinyl tile product so we may end up going back to one of those choices.

Thanks again everyone for the great input.

HoustonRemodeler
Re: Kitchen floor dilemma

What about adding another support beam to reduce the span of the joists?

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